In this insightful episode of the Crypto Trailblazers series hosted by theCUBE, Mike Cagney of Figure Markets sits down with analysts from theCUBE Research to discuss groundbreaking advancements in blockchain technology and their implications for the finance sector. This video is part of the NYSE Wired digital event, aimed at bridging the gap between Silicon Valley and Wall Street by integrating technology and finance.
Cagney, an eminent figure in fintech, shares expertise on the transformative role of blockchain in financial markets during this interview. Conducted by seasoned analysts at theCUBE, the discussion delves into Figure’s innovative contributions, including their blockchain-native loan origination and securitization process. He outlines how Figure leverages blockchain to achieve cost reductions, enhanced security and improved liquidity in financial transactions.
Key takeaways from the interview highlight insights on the evolution of the Web3 ecosystem, such as the emergence of stablecoins as pivotal to transaction processes and the rise of decentralized finance (DeFi). Oltsik states these developments signify a shift towards democratizing finance, wherein truth and transparency are foundational. The conversation concludes with a look at Figure’s pioneering efforts in creating a new financial marketplace utilizing blockchain technology.
#CryptoTrailblazers #FigureMarkets #BlockchainInnovation #Web3 #NYEWired #BlockchainFinance #DecentralizedFinance #Fintech #Stablecoins
Find more SiliconANGLE news and analysis https://siliconangle.com/.
Follow theCUBE's wall-to-wall event coverage https://siliconangle.com/events/
Learn about the latest theCUBE events https://www.thecube.net/
00:00 - Intro
00:05 - Emerging Innovations in Financial Technology and Market Dynamics
02:45 - Key Elements in Financial Ecosystem Dynamics
06:20 - Blockchain: Truth and Transformation
09:39 - Shaping the Future: Innovations in Financial Markets and Stablecoin Integration
13:15 - Enabling the Future: Navigating Disruptions in Banking and Lending
16:51 - Exploring Opportunities and Building Confidence in the Blockchain Ecosystem
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Bill Barhydt, Abra
In this insightful episode of the Crypto Trailblazers series hosted by theCUBE, Mike Cagney of Figure Markets sits down with analysts from theCUBE Research to discuss groundbreaking advancements in blockchain technology and their implications for the finance sector. This video is part of the NYSE Wired digital event, aimed at bridging the gap between Silicon Valley and Wall Street by integrating technology and finance.
Cagney, an eminent figure in fintech, shares expertise on the transformative role of blockchain in financial markets during this interview. Conducted by seasoned analysts at theCUBE, the discussion delves into Figure’s innovative contributions, including their blockchain-native loan origination and securitization process. He outlines how Figure leverages blockchain to achieve cost reductions, enhanced security and improved liquidity in financial transactions.
Key takeaways from the interview highlight insights on the evolution of the Web3 ecosystem, such as the emergence of stablecoins as pivotal to transaction processes and the rise of decentralized finance (DeFi). Oltsik states these developments signify a shift towards democratizing finance, wherein truth and transparency are foundational. The conversation concludes with a look at Figure’s pioneering efforts in creating a new financial marketplace utilizing blockchain technology.
#CryptoTrailblazers #FigureMarkets #BlockchainInnovation #Web3 #NYEWired #BlockchainFinance #DecentralizedFinance #Fintech #Stablecoins
Find more SiliconANGLE news and analysis https://siliconangle.com/.
Follow theCUBE's wall-to-wall event coverage https://siliconangle.com/events/
Learn about the latest theCUBE events https://www.thecube.net/
00:00 - Intro
00:05 - Emerging Innovations in Financial Technology and Market Dynamics
02:45 - Key Elements in Financial Ecosystem Dynamics
06:20 - Blockchain: Truth and Transformation
09:39 - Shaping the Future: Innovations in Financial Markets and Stablecoin Integration
13:15 - Enabling the Future: Navigating Disruptions in Banking and Lending
16:51 - Exploring Opportunities and Building Confidence in the Blockchain Ecosystem
In this segment from theCUBE’s + NYSE Wired Crypto Trailblazer NYC event, Abra CEO, Bill Barhydt, joins host John Furrier for a deep dive into the shifting foundations of money, banking and decentralized finance. With over a decade of pioneering experience in crypto, Barhydt outlines how Abra is bridging traditional finance with next-gen blockchain technologies to make crypto accessible, secure and usable at scale.
Barhydt breaks down how Abra’s SEC-registered platform empowers family offices, RIAs and high-net-worth individuals to earn yield, borrow against...Read more
exploreKeep Exploring
What platform has been developed to allow mainstream investors to access crypto, and what features does it offer?add
What role does Bitcoin play in traditional finance, particularly in terms of collateral and borrowing practices?add
What considerations should Fortune 100 companies have when deciding how to manage their investment strategies in relation to currency value fluctuations?add
What is the concept of a "money operating system" and how does it relate to the impact of software on traditional finance?add
What is the relationship between software productivity gains, AI automation, and the role of Stablecoins in transaction processing?add
What are the anticipated changes in the financial and investment landscape with the emergence of new technologies and companies?add
>> Hello everyone. Welcome to theCube here at the NYSE Cube Studios. We are here on the show floor, a lot of active trading going on, market's hot, and as the market changes from classic old-school finance to decentralized finance, all the topics are around how the mainstream is going to adopt the new digital currency. Bill Barhydt here, CEO of Abra is here, 10 years in the business. Bill, great to have you on theCube.>> Great to be here.>> Thanks for coming on and got the trades behind us. Market's up.>> Day's rocking.>> Talk about what you guys are working on because you've been doing this for 10 years. You guys have a unique position in the market and you earn that trust. You're bridging decentralized finance to mainstream and actually have done it.>> That's right. To my knowledge, we're the only company that's basically built a platform that allows mainstream investors to access crypto correctly. What I mean by that is you can earn yield, you can stake, you can even borrow against the value of your Bitcoin and Ethereum and Solana holdings. So we basically have made DeFi accessible in a very simple, easy, you don't even need to understand the tech way, and that's the future of banking and investing in my opinion.>> So scar tissue is a Silicon Valley term we use out there when you're pioneering. DeFi has gone through some changes, obviously, evolution for sure, but right now you're seeing a massive trend here, certainly in Wall Street, real-world assets on chain. So you're starting to see momentum in all areas around decentralized finance and assets.>> That's right.>> Okay, so that's coming fast too, but the classic Bitcoin crypto is what people are holding->> It is.... >> and there's new currency coming out. So you got two things, mainstreaming the store of value and making that liquid and trading it and doing things like that, and then the wave coming, you got a wave of shift. It's a paradigm shift as they say, but it's happening fast. We're hearing from big institutions looking at how to figure out how do you digitize->> That's right.... >> and create a digital twin, whatever you want to call it. That's coming fast. Separate from all the stuff we have to love, agents, AI stuff's happening too, so the massive wave is coming on all fronts.>> Absolutely. I mean, Bitcoin has kind of shown us the way, TradFi is now basically using Bitcoin as collateral within treasuries and borrowing US dollars, which makes perfect sense. Why would you want to spend an appreciating asset when you can spend in a depreciating asset? The dollar, right? So as the dollar loses value versus Bitcoin, I would rather hold my Bitcoin whether I'm an individual, trust, family office, corporate treasury, makes no difference. It's the same story. Borrow dollars against the value of my Bitcoin, similar to a HELOC. The only difference is your house is going up 1 or 2% a year on average over 15, 20 years. Bitcoin's going up 25 to 30 a year. So a lot of our clients aren't even paying the interest on their loans. They roll it over into principle and the LTV on the loan is still going down because the price of the underlying asset, Bitcoin is going up even faster than they're accruing interest. So they treat it like a personal bank account that they can draw down on over time, no taxes because you're just borrowing, right? And you can ride the future gains.>> This is mind-blowing because most people think, "Okay, buy a house, store the value, buy art," whatever. And now you're getting into a world where the value extraction piece is changing, and talk about that dynamic because retail people, "Oh, I can trade Bitcoin," but what you guys are doing is less retail, more real money. You mentioned treasury. That's a term that's kicked around. Large money, because it's large money at play Here.>> So we service family offices, high net worth individuals, also other RIAs are our clients so that their clients through their wealth advisories can access all of these crypto services. Now, they can earn yield on Bitcoin, they can stake Solana and Ethereum, they can borrow. But the dynamic that people need to understand is that when you think about long-term stock prices, home prices, they basically track demonetization, meaning they track the devaluation of the dollar over 50, 60 years. That accelerated in '71 when we came off the gold standard and money was basically now based on fiat or by government decree, and it basically is being devalued at 7% a year. Well, if you look at stock and home prices, guess how they track. Basically, in cities it's like 7% a year. And we have more land, it'll be a little bit less. But basically if you keep making more shares, more homes, it's going to be 7% a year because we keep printing more money. What Bitcoin has shown us is if you have a pristine asset with a fixed float that mathematically cannot change and people start hoarding it, which is what Austrian economists predicted what would happen when they wrote about private money 50, 60 years ago before the internet, you get Bitcoin, right? And everything, literally everything is going to zero right now against Bitcoin. Any chart you look at over the last 20 years or 15 years since Bitcoin has existed, it looks like it's going to zero against Bitcoin.>> That's mind-blowing. I got another mind-blowing things. Let's talk about treasury because you mentioned that word. I've had conversations with folks. I'm not a big money guy, so I don't really know the ins and outs, but when I hear things like, "We're reevaluating our treasury strategy." Okay, what does that mean? Because what I hear is there's some stuff going down, I want to be in position. So a lot of people are rethinking their treasury strategy saying, "Okay, what does that even mean?" It affects M&A investments, capital structures. So the disruption enablement coming from the dynamics you just talked about is causing pre-existing infrastructure and mechanisms to change. What are those things changing? What is treasury strategies doing and what's the structural change?>> So let's be clear, right? Historically, companies don't have treasury strategies. You have cash and they go into treasury bonds, money markets, and you don't get fired and you don't lose the cash and it's a reputable bank and that's the way it is. But we've also accepted that when it comes to the enterprise value of a company, the cash is discounted to zero effectively because of the devaluation of the underlying. So if you look at most companies, their enterprise value gets no benefit whatsoever from growth in the value of treasury because it barely keeps pace with inflation. That makes no sense when the dollar has lost 25% of its purchasing power since the beginning of COVID, and that trend is actually continuing. It wasn't a one-time thing. So now if you're smart and you look at... Especially if you're a Fortune 100 company with hundreds of billions of dollars sitting in your aggregate across all these companies, you got to start looking at this and going, "Well, wait a minute-">> What do we think on the table?>> What are we doing here? We have the ability to invest in digital property that is more or less guaranteed to accrue at a predictable rate, and we know that the dollar is more or less guaranteed to decrease in value at its own predictable rate. So why would we continue chasing our tail with dollar-based treasury that loses the value of all of the productivity that we contributed to society over time when we can actually maintain our purchasing power as an enterprise with Bitcoin? And so you now have to be looking at some type of Bitcoin treasury strategy as a company for the next couple of years, in my opinion, or you're missing the boat.>> Yeah, you guys are an SEC-approved. What's the term for it?>> Registered investment advisor.>> Registered investment advisor, which means what? You can actually->> It means that we are a fiduciary for our clients. We can help them make crypto investments. We can legally pay yield on investments. We can set up loans so that they can borrow against the investments. Our clients get, what we call in the SEC vernacular, separately managed accounts. Those accounts look like individual vaults, so they're not on our or anyone else's balance sheet. It's basically your personal balance sheet and your assets stay your assets.>> So custody is fine. No custody challenges at all there. I don't know of anyone else doing this. Are there other people that have that same designation?>> No, it's really hard to do what we do. So if you use an exchange, which for the average person, I would not recommend, you become a liability on the exchange's balance sheet. So you basically have lent them your assets just like a bank. That's why we have the FDIC in the US because when you deposit in a bank, you've lent your money to a bank, your assets are now a liability on the bank's balance sheet. That's not a good idea for your personal investments. So the way to handle that is via this idea of a separately managed account. So you retain, effectively, title to your assets, very hard to implement because each client is effectively becoming their own bank in very simple non-legal terms, right? So implementing that was really hard. And to my knowledge, we're the only company in the US that's been able to build that.>> In the tech for 20 years now in Silicon Valley where I'm based out of, the term, it's been kicked around on social media, infinite finance, control your own destiny, control your own data. And you're starting to see that in the AI conversations. The data is the IP. In your case, you're basically saying, from what I hear is, and correct me if I'm wrong, "Here's your asset. You own it, leverage it. Don't give it to somebody else.">> Right. Democratization of wealth is a misunderstood concept because what would wealthy people traditionally do? They would put multiple homes in place, probably in different geographies to spread the risk. Within those homes, they would put 10 x the value of the homes in art that they could move around and was fungible for different currencies over time so they weren't taking currency risks, because intergenerationally, they knew what happens. It goes to zero. Bitcoin takes that concept, makes it available to everyone, so it democratizes access to wealth preservation and it's digital so you can move it around in real time.>> So now real world assets are coming, crypto-backed lending and borrowing is now happening. You're enabling that.>> That's right.>> So take us through that. What does that look like and what does that disrupt?>> Why do we care about tokenization of real world assets? It's every conversation I have when I come to New York, right? When I come from Silicon Valley, New York, the first conversation is real world assets. Why should we care? Think of Bitcoin now as almost like a real world asset. We're taking Bitcoin, putting it on the Ethereum blockchain as a new token and letting you borrow against it. Well, in theory, we can do that with anything. Once you have a bid and an ask spread, meaning once something is tradable as a token, I can now lend against it because if you don't make the loan payment, the token simply gets sold in order to make the payment. Just like if you don't make a HELOC loan payment, they're going to foreclose on your house. So once you tokenize these real world assets, you unlock not only the trading liquidity, but you unlock the value in lending markets, and we're talking about a couple of hundred trillion dollars at global scale, real estate, equities, bonds, commodities, all basically now can be tokenized, traded just like crypto, which unlocks the lending markets for those assets so that they can basically be borrowed against 24/7.>> The users are in control. In this case, the separate accounts that you're enabling. The circle IPO went public here. Everyone saw that, Stablecoin, some say not so stable. There's still arbitrage going on there. But that's a sign, that's a good sign. It's a good direction. Let's talk about Stablecoin because... Now, let's kind of go talk about our tech backgrounds. If you look at the history of tech, silos kill, data and AI is now becoming a big part of the conversation. So Stablecoin by itself is only one thing. You have a platform. So I kind of have this notion called the money operating system, and I think what you're doing is disrupting a lot of folks here because they're like, "Wait a minute, how we operate our money is going to be impacted by a holistic system.>> That's right.>> So what is the Linux operating system for money? Is it your platform combined with some Stablecoin? Is there a Palantir angle in here? I mean, it's like, "Give me Circle and Palantir and I'd be happy.">> Let's make it very simple. When Marc Andreessen published his famous thesis that software is eating the world, it was true except for two things, basically, that I could see, money and banking, and they're not the same thing. They're intertwined, but they're not the same thing. Bitcoin showed us that we could have software eat the world when it came to sound money because you got the government out of the money printing business, and in theory, out of the war business because bond markets are what drive debt cycles, which is what drives, historically, war. So that was what Bitcoin did, it basically showed us that the idea of software eating the world, what could be true for money. Ethereum came along a few years later and said, "Well, wait a minute. Bitcoin is great, but it's not programmable." So if we add this concept of mini programs or smart contracts to the idea of Bitcoin, we get Ethereum, but that enables the creation of new tokens, the creation of payment rails. That's how we got Stablecoins because now this new era of programmability within the banking system has been completely decentralized and taken away from the government and the banks. So now we can tokenize things. Tether operates legally out of El Salvador, doesn't even sit in the US, is sitting on $125 billion worth of US treasuries, all represented via Ethereum and Tron, smart contracts, little programs that represent these so-called Stablecoins. That's what's happening in the background.>> What's interesting is that most people think just magic happens overnight, but the progressions here are the utility of buying lending and borrowing that you're enabling combined with Stablecoin, combined with geopolitical, call it domiciling or hanging out, is the beginning of the trend.>> That's right.>> People here are shaking in their boots because they're going to be disrupted.>> They should be.>> Because they're like, "Wait a minute, my mechanisms that we were using that were causing wars-">> Traditional markets-... >> are going to be disrupted and upside down.>> Traditional markets are closed way more than they're open. My markets don't close. They literally don't close because it makes no sense. If you have a decentralized system.>> It's 24/7.>> We used DeFi to execute trades. It doesn't know what opening and closing hours are. It's just on. And so once you tokenize all the things, as we say in my world, the markets will just always be on. So if we start bombing another country on a Sunday afternoon, which happened this past weekend, the markets will react in real time. You can see the effect on crypto in real time on a Sunday, and then you wait another 18 hours and see the effect on stocks and->> Which is why the stock shoots up, why it opens up out of the gate.>> Makes no sense.>> Makes no sense to me. Why even have bells?>> It's a 1960s concept, right?>> As we sit in the NYSE. This brings up a really interesting topic because the question a lot of people trying to get their arms around is, okay, I get tokenization, I get the digitization, I get the first party integration of physical, digital, and we're seeing in the AI world, NVIDIA, physical, AI, factory, digital twins, you're tokenizing assets, now you have transactions, you've got a marketplace developing around it. What happens next? In your mind, what is the successful progression? What happens next?>> I think there's a couple of things that are going to happen. First, you're going to basically see a mad rush towards banks trying to issue Stablecoins because they know that payment rails are going to be usurped by these Stablecoins, right? Visa, MasterCard, Amex, Alipay, they're all going to be disrupted. That's part one. We're going to get a market structure legislation that's going to basically allow for all of these DeFi networks to start to look like neo-banks, right? That's crazy to get . It's basically saying, "I can build a DeFi system and not get sued by the government anymore like I used to three years ago, and basically compete with banks now." So now there's going to be this mad rush for traditional stock exchanges, traditional banks, to try to compete with those platforms. So I think you're going to see centers in Dubai, in Singapore, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh, try to compete with the New York Stock Exchange by tokenizing equities. And so what is the value of a stock exchange if you've tokenized an equity? Well, I still have to have risk disclosures. I still have to have my equivalent of an S-1 somewhere, and so everybody's going to compete for the best technology. But if I can trade my stock 24/7 over here, borrow against the shares over here and it trades 35 hours a week over here, I've got to get my act together to be able to compete with the people that are going to->> It's a re-plumbing of the infrastructure.>> That is correct.>> So let's just bring back the money, banking relationships, which you kind of nicely pointed out separate, but together, they're kind of siloed, but they're->> Can't have one without the other.>> They're proprietary>> In the government sense, they're proprietary.>> Which is kind of a quote, proprietary. But enclosed, I mean, for reasons they had to do that. Now you factor in the software eating the world concept that you've just brought up from, I think that was almost 20 years ago we wrote that paper. Now you've got AI. So if I have the best AI, if I had the best neocloud, I could have the best neobank. So that means I could be an oil tycoon or a rich individual and essentially compete effectively on software value.>> That's right.>> This is where I see Circle and Palantir model , for lack of a better word... Analogy. What's your reaction to Palantir and Stablecoins? Circle and Palantir mean Stablecoins meets software.>> That's right. So the entire idea of productivity-based gains via software is going to be completely rewritten on planet Earth over the next five years. Every piece of software, every piece of code, it's all going to basically be bottom-up, rewritten via AI with massive productivity gains because all of these agents are going to replace people, this agentic internet where automated processes are just going to proliferate. The problem with that is that it rewrites the rules for transaction processing. If you need to move money around, an automated AI agent on the internet can't have a bank account. If it's not owned by a company, how is it going to process a transaction? So that's where crypto and Stablecoins, I think, have a trillion dollar opportunity. In other words, if companies like Palantir and other... Gemini, Google and OpenAI are building all these agents all over the internet, how are they going to transact? They cannot transact via PayPal and bank accounts. They can't execute bank wires. There's no entity. It's just an agent. So that's why Stablecoins, Bitcoin, crypto are so interesting and I think a trillion dollar opportunity.>> I think also... I would speculate that a new brand's going to emerge because the incumbents may or may not see that opportunity because what you're doing is just scratching the surface.>> That's right.>> You've essentially effectively legitimized crypto, decentralized finance, in mainstream.>> What is the Oracle or IBM of transaction processing within the agentic internet? We don't know for sure. I posit that it's going to be crypto.>> It's an OLTP PostgreS database running on an agent that's going to be constituted or delegated by some software.>> I mean, I think ... It's going to be replaced wholesale. All of those old SQL mini-frame systems are going to be completely replaced with decentralized systems that have no off switch. You can't have an off switch on transaction processing in the era of AI. It doesn't work>> If you are going to have neobanks, you're going to enable me, if I'm rich, to essentially have a unique perspective with my money and provide a service of that money, leveraging it, using it, owning it, having custody of it. I'm going to do some things that might be interesting. So I might have agents on my behalf create a software abstraction for you guys. You can build an abstraction layer into your buy, sell, lending, borrowing, because you have data.>> I'll give you a concrete example.>> Give that data to your customer.>> Absolutely. I'll give you a concrete example. I think all this talk is, "Okay, well, everybody's going to lose their jobs," and those... I think when you go to the AI world, we moved to an ownership economy. We went from agriculture, to industrial, to knowledge worker, and now I think we're moving to ownership. What does the ownership mean? Okay. I actually don't think it makes sense for people to go out and invest in robotaxis. Why? Well, you have all kinds of liability. You have to set up an LLC, traditional sense, and you own a bunch of robotaxis, you get a loan and you buy them. I actually think the robotaxis will own themselves. They will be smart contracts, just like a token, and people will be able to invest by lending, effectively, a DAO or decentralized autonomous organization that represents the car money. The car will drive itself around.>> It'll get smart. It'll know the highest yield too, be like, >> It'll invest its own money. It'll drive around, make money via crypto payments, automated right via people's phones, and it will charge itself, pay for charging, and after 15 years, it will end of life itself and everybody will have made their money back by investing tokens into those cars in the first place. ->> The AGI car.>> You got this big ownership economy that I think is going to be crypto driven, that is going to rewire everything over the next 15 years.>> Well, Bill, super exciting to have you here and been part of our Crypto Trailblazers Program. You are blazing the trail. You have blazed the trail, you're continuing to do that, and you're enabling real world transactions and real world assets are coming on chain. More headroom for you there. I guess my final question would be just to kind of tie together the trends that we cover on the AI infrastructure and super computing side, is that one of the successful formulas we've seen in the AI world that moves at superfast speed, high velocity scale, is that matching hardware and software together become big because now the software's becoming intelligent. So it brings the question up. My iPhone, is there going to be a device? If there's open systems, that open source is booming. So as decentralized finance and decentralized infrastructure merge with the power of AI, the trend of having maybe custody in a wallet hardware device, what's your vision on the merging of hardware and software and how does that play into the trajectory that you laid out?>> Yeah, I think we're entering into this era of disappearing computing, meaning that the interfaces that we use to access cloud-based services, whether it's our agents in the cloud, our information, our bank accounts, our investments, it's literally becoming so small and translucent to the point where I think in a couple of years, you're really not even going to see it, whether it's via glasses, watches, the walls, your television, we walk room to room, it knows who we are, kind of in the minority reports. non-histopian version->> Or Star Trek, anything to the .>> Yeah. But to your question, it does beg the question, "Okay, what is the implication of that for accessing my identity, my money, my assets?" And I think what happens is it becomes a combination of biometrics, meaning who you are, what you know and the cloud. And I think it becomes more secure over time as we enter into the so-called quantum realm.>> Final, final question is, as companies go public, we're starting to see mainstreaming also on the IPO side where this capital market... Sometimes they're direct listing, sometimes they're raising money, sometimes they don't need to raise money. What does a successful IPO look like in this modern era of institutional change, structural change, transformation, software, money? What does success look like? Because it's not going to be the same success we've seen before.>> Yeah, it's changing quickly. I mean, look, in my world, we're seeing basically new companies set up just to manage treasury for Bitcoin because you can now securitize Bitcoin as a treasury assets and get leverage in the system that you can't easily get via an ETF, right? That's super interesting. But now we have these one in two-person companies that are being set up as AI-based systems that are going to start going public and accessing liquidity in markets. And I think you're going to see different countries try to compete with New York and London for doing that, right? You're going to see tokenized equity exchanges crop up, in my opinion, all over the world.>> So asset-based systems that have software.>> That's right. So not only the traditional companies, which will continue for the next 10 years, but you're going to start to see these 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5-person companies literally go public. The most profitable company in the world by far right now is less than a hundred employees. Tether. They made $13 billion in profit. Not cash flow, revenue profit last year. That is an insane number, and it's going to be better this year, and they have less than a hundred employees. So with AI on top, it's going to become even more extreme.>> So assets with AI will probably look like a GE of crypto. I mean, because assets would favor itself to a structure where you could have anything that's an asset. I could say the coral reefs are an asset. I'm making that up, but just to make my point, anything is an asset that could be instrumented.>> So when you meet the real world and tokenization, you have rights that are adjudicated in court, right? Bitcoin is not real world in the sense of it doesn't know about the physical world, it doesn't care about your court opinion. It just is, right?>> That's the best part about it.>> Yeah. Exactly. But once you start to deal in the physical, you have to basically... You're outside the matrix now. You have to deal with the real world. You have to have courts, you have to have rules, you have to have risk disclosures. That's where the existing system helps. And then when you combine that with the tokenization, you get the best of both worlds.>> And you guys are doing that. Congratulations again for the success.>> Thank you.>> 10 years of grinding, you break through the wall, get a little bloody.>> 10-year overnight success. Exactly.>> And you're SEC registered, so that means it's just going to flow. So congratulations.>> Thank you.>> Thanks for coming on the program.>> My pleasure. Great to be here.>> Okay. I'm John Furrier, host of theCube here at our NYSE studio, and of course, the Crypto Trailblazer Program. Check it on our site. theCube and NYSE Wired community, bringing you the content here in New York and Silicon Valley. Thanks for watching.
